March 10, 1991

Om shanti, peace. Good afternoon. It's good to be with you again. I consider this my spiritual family. We are all one, there is no difference.

People still ask me, "Robert, what do you see when you look at us? Do you see energy? Do you see consciousness? Do you see a play of lights? Do you see emptiness?" If I saw those things I wouldn't be able to function. I see what you see, you. The only difference is, I realize I am not the body. And when I say I'm not the body, I'm speaking of the universal body, which contains you. Therefore, if I'm not the body, and I see that, I see that you are also not the body. I simply see the world as superimposed images on the screen. But I'm always aware that you are images. And so is the body, and so is the trees, and the sky, and the planets, and the animals, and the insects, and everything else. For some reason I'm always aware of that. I'm aware that it's like bubble, and the bubble bursts, and the reality expresses itself as consciousness.

Therefore I see you as you see me, but I see you as consciousness, the reality. Or I see you as myself, as a screen, and the whole universe is simply a superimposition on the screen. I do not see you as a human being. I do not see this radio, or the lamp, or this table, as a entity of itself. I see it as consciousness.

This doesn't mean that consciousness manifested these things. As I always explain, consciousness is self-contained, and only manifests itself. These things are like optical illusions. They do not really exist, as a dream does not really exist. In the dream you're carrying on, you're flying back from New York to California, you're experiencing all kinds of things in your life, and everything appears as real. But then you wake up and the bubble is burst.

So I guess the only difference between you and me is that I'm always aware of that. If you're aware of that, there's no fear. Fear only comes when you believe the world to be real. When the world proves to be an illusion, where is there fear? What in the world can upset you, if you know the world is but a dream?

You may say, "Well it may be a dream, but I don't want to be hurt in the dream. I want my dream to be smooth and easy. I want it to be happy and harmonious and healthy." If you think in those terms, you are not aware yet of what consciousness is. Consciousness transcends all of that. Consciousness is divine harmony. None of those things exist.

I realize that's hard to comprehend. The worst things can appear to happen to my body, to my affairs, to my life, yet I'm aware that it's not happening. I'm not imagining that it's not happening. I'm not repressing it. I'm not saying to myself, "Robert, you've got to see only the good." It's beyond all that. There is no good. There is no bad. There is total freedom, total liberation.

Look at it this way. You have an idea what God is because God has been drummed into your head since you were a little kid. Can you imagine God having fear, of anything? Or God going through any kind of experience? Or God saying, "This is good, this is bad, this is right, this is wrong, I'd rather have this than that?" There is no duality in God.

So the universe is ultimate oneness. Ultimate oneness is another word for divine harmony. It is beyond all concepts or preconceived ideas. The human mind cannot comprehend it. Suffice it to say that all is well. It is when we begin to quiet the mind that you come closer and closer to this understanding. That's when the thoughts begin to stop, when they slow down, that you become more aware that all is well and the reality comes to you by itself. As long as you keep identifying with the world and the things of the world, you can never know the truth about yourself.

And again you may say, "Well, I've got to function in the world. I've got to work, I've got to have a family, I've got to look after my interests." Who says you don't? But it has nothing to do with you.

You have to understand that your body will take care of itself. The dream will go on by itself. You will do whatever you came to this earth to do, without your thinking about it, without your trying to make something happen, without trying to straighten out anything in this world. This is what I mean when I say be yourself. Just be yourself. Live in the eternal now. That's being yourself. Be spontaneous. Allow the world to unfold as it should. Do not be judgmental. Look at everything fresh and new, with awe. Have reverence for all life, and ask yourself, "Who am I?" Then things will begin to happen.

The closest thing you can come to, to having an experience of quiet mind, is chanting. Chanting has its vibration in the nervous system that actually causes the mind to slow down. There are many people who cannot do atma-vichara, self-inquiry too long. And for those people who are practicing self-inquiry, sometimes you want to take a break. So put on a chanting tape and chant along with it to yourself, or out loud, and you will find that you go deeper within yourself and the mind becomes quiescent, still and calm. So lets do that right now, shall we.

Some people tell me they like the talks better than anything else we do. Some people tell me they like the chanting better. Some people tell me they like the question and answers better. Some people tell me they like the silence better. Remember what this is. This is satsang. This is not a lecture or a musical festival. Everything we do is important, even if I spoke about the weather and nothing else. It's being at satsang that causes something to take place within your consciousness and lift you higher.

There was once a holy man who died and went up to heaven. He came to the pearly gates and banged on the gate. And God came out and said, "What do you want?" And the holy man said, "I am your servant. I have come." And God said, "Sorry, there's no room for you here. Goodbye," and left.

The holy man was perplexed. He sat down in front of the gate and started to ponder. "Why doesn't God let me in?" And he sat for two years thinking, "Why can't I get into heaven?" And finally it came to him. So he banged on the gate again and God came and said, "Who are you? What do you want?" The holy man said, "I am your servant. I have converted thousands of people on your behalf. I have preached the bible to millions. I have done good deeds. Let me in." And God said, "sorry, I don't care what you've done, there's no room in here for you,” and went away.

This time the holy man was really disturbed. He couldn't understand this. "Why won't God let me in?" he said. So he sat down in front of the gate again. Centuries passed. Remember he was dead anyway so it didn't matter. He was pondering why God didn't let him in. Then it came to him. So again he got up and banged on the pearly gates. God came out and said, "Who are you? What do you want?" And he said, "Lord, I am your humble servant, but I must confess my sins. I have had sexual affairs with my female devotees. I have eaten meat and told people I was a vegetarian. But I confess everything to you. Can I come in now?" So God looked at him and said, "I don't care what you do. There's no room for you now." And he went away.

"My God,” the holy man said. "What is this? I've done everything I can. I'm going to sit here at this gate if I have to sit here for all eternity, until I find out what the problem is." So he sat for years and century after century, pondering. I confessed my sins to God. I confessed my good deeds to God. I want to get into heaven. Wait a minute, who is this I? Who is the I that committed sins? Who is the I that committed good deeds? Who is the I that wants to get into heaven? Who am I?" And all of a sudden he started laughing. It came to him. He rolled over in laughter and he got up and banged on the gate. And God came and said, "Who are you?" And he said, "I am yourself.” And God opened the gate and he said, "Come in. There never was a room here for me and you.”

And so it is with us. We claim that we want to be self-realized. We do not realize that we are self-realized, and we just have to let go of believing "I am the doer." It makes no difference what you've done in the past. It makes no difference if you've done good deeds or bad deeds, as far as self-realization is concerned. Once you know the truth, you become free. The truth is, there is no past. There never was a past. The universe has no foundation. There is nothing to hold it together. Therefore there is nothing that you have done that can keep you out of heaven, so to speak.

Now remember, this doesn't give you a license to go out and hurt people and rob banks, and do whatever you think you want to do because it doesn't matter. That's not what I'm saying at all. As far as you're concerned, as long as you believe you are the doer and you are the body-mind  phenomena, everything you do has to be accounted for. The lord of karma is going to get you as long as you believe you are human and you are the body. Then you can't get away with anything, for you run into the law of cause and effect, karma, and you have to deal with the personal god, Ishwara.

As long as you believe you are human, you are the doer, and you are the personal I, then there's a personal god, and that's where prayer comes in. You can pray to your personal god, and you will be helped. Your personal god will take care of you if you surrender and submit to him or her, whatever your personal god is.

But when you submit you are giving up your ego, are you not? You're saying I am nothing and you're everything. This helps you. As you keep going in that direction one day you will awaken to the fact that the god you've been praying to is none other than yourself. For how can this god be separate from you? Where would he live? What would be his nature?

You begin to understand, I am that. You find freedom in yourself. You begin to see that god is not within myself. Actually I am in God. What I call God, is consciousness. I am conscious. I am aware. I exist. I am. And there's nothing else. You begin to see yourself as omnipresence. You are no longer limited to your body or to the personal I. You have broken through, and you live in glory.

Your job is to keep the mind from wandering. The mind has to be held by you, to stop it from thinking. Stop it from going berserk. The mind is not your friend. It makes you human. It makes you believe you are a body, separate. As soon as you can see that your body is an emanation of your mind, it has no existence whatsoever except in your mind, you also begin to see that the body of the universe is the same as your body. Therefore it is a manifestation of mind. This brings a semblance of freedom. Bondage begins to break up, when you can see this. You look at the world and you realize the world is the self. I am that self. There is nothing else.

You want to share this truth with your friends, with your family, with your associates, but you cannot, for there are no words to describe this. Everywhere you look, you see freedom. Everywhere you look, you see love. All the trivialities are gone. The judgments have dissipated. You have nothing to fear and nothing to fight. All is well. It comes as an idea.

Have you ever seen those cartoons of a light flashing when someone gets an idea? Something like that happens to you. It's as if you're awakened from a long sleep. In this awakening there is no past and there is no future. There is just beingness. You have just become yourself. You have not become anything foreign or anything strange. You have simply awakened to yourself, and you feel wonderful.

You have to ask yourself, "Who do I really think I am?" And you can tell by the amount of sorrows or happiness or human endeavors that you go through. If you believe you are human then you experience human happiness, human sadness, you go through human experiences. You can never know the self that way. But as soon as you stop reacting to your human goodness…

There are people who tell me, "I've never had a bad day in my life." So I tell them you're just as stuck in your good days as you are in your bad days. For realization is not having good days. Try to understand that human goodness is karmic, and when the karmic patterns wear off you will experience the opposite. You want to go beyond, beyond all understanding, beyond all conceptual thinking, beyond all intellectual concepts, beyond anything that is known to man, and of course that's silence.

Everything leads to silence. It is in the silence that you experience pure awareness. It's in the silence that you experience bliss. It's in the silence that you are. You are not anything that you can describe. You have become the pure Godhead. You have awakened.

Why not awaken now? Why continue to play games? Wake up. Know who you are. Be yourself. Leave the world alone. Again, your body, as it appears to you, will function in the world. And it will do whatever it came here to do. But leave it alone. Do not interfere with the process. Do not react to any conditionings. Keep identifying with the self. The self is I am. You simply become aware that I am. That's how you identify with yourself. You feel, "I am,” "I am,” "I am.” If anything comes after that, inquire, "To whom does it come?" Even if the word god comes after I am, your mind is playing tricks on you. Ask, "To whom does this come?” the word god. I am will suffice. That's all you have to be is I am. Everything else is redundant, superfluous. If your mind tells you, "I am the body,” again inquire, "To whom does this come?" Whatever words are put into your mind, get rid of them. Listen to the silence. Listen to I am.

Some people wonder if it's good to ask questions. Some people are afraid to ask questions because they think that somebody will think they are stupid. Nothing can be further from the truth. The answer to that is yes and no. There is a certain point about this teaching that you've been wondering about, something you do not understand, so you should ask a question. On the other hand if you're coming here with the right attitude, all your questions will be answered from within yourself. Therefore do not feel strange if you ask a question. That's all part of the teaching. There might be something going on that you'd like to know, that I haven't covered. Therefore feel free to ask any question about spiritual life or anything else. Doesn't matter what you ask. I don't have to answer, but you can ask anyway.

Student: Robert, is there any deepening of your experience as time goes by? Have you found a deepening as you continue, a deepening of the experience of your self, as it deepens, as time goes by, or does it stay? In other words when a person realizes that, does it continue to deepen?

Robert: There is no deepening involved, whether you either become awakened or not. But on the other hand it appears as you become more peaceful on the path. And all the things that used to disturb you, seem to dissipate.

S: But there is a process as realization occurs, as a sort of process.

R: It's not really a process for realization. It's a process for yourself to become a better person. But awakening comes by itself. And it has nothing to do with that. But it appears so what you've said happens also.

S: You continue to be a better person after self-realization?

R: No, not after. After self-realization there's nobody left to be a better person. A better person comes before. On the other hand, there have been thieves, murderers, who have, all of a sudden for one reason or another, have become self-realized. It depends on the person. But again, you're either awake or asleep. There is no in between. Once you wake up you realize that you've always been awake. There never was a time when you were not. But before that you go through all kinds of games and rituals and experiences, sometimes. It all depends on the maturity of the person.

S: What if the person is immature and they have, as you say, a realization of self, is that immaturity, is that helped in the course in the presence of self-realization?

R: After a person awakens, there is no question of maturity. Those questions are gone. For again, there is no one left to be mature or immature. You're just awake. And all concepts are finished. All the things we're talking about go on before awakening. But once awakening comes, there's no question.

S: Those individuals, the so called sinners who suddenly have realization, what happens to all those samskaras? Are they burnt up in the realization?

R: Completely burnt up. They never existed.

S: Has the bubble gone?

R: There's no bubble because there is no one to experience the bubble.

S: You said that the design harmony was part of the bubble, or did you?

R: I didn't say it exactly like that.

S: You didn't say it?

R: I didn't say it exactly like that. There appears to be a bubble which is a manifestation of the world, but the bubble bursts, and then there is total freedom. The bubble is the world. It's like a bubble, like a dream. Once someone bursts the bubble, the dream is over and you're free. So where is the need of a bubble? There has to be someone to experience the bubble. When there is realization, the experience and the experience, both have been transcended. In other words, there is no one to experience anything.

S: You won't experience the freedom either.

R: That's right. Freedom is only a word that's spoken before realization. For whom is there freedom when one is realized? One becomes freedom. There is no such word for the realized person.

S: Essentially the question was, can you go over to the student, shake him and wake him up? Can you do that?

R: Walk over and wake you up? As far as I'm concerned you're already awake. But you have to be able to see it yourself.

S: Can one person do that for another person, help another person wake up?"

R: That's very rare, but it is possible. That usually happens to a person who in many lives has been on the spiritual path, the high path, and then through a touch or glance, they go all the way, and they break through maya, and they become free. That's a possibility but very rare. As far as asking if I can do that, there's no I left to do anything. If I did a thing like that, there would be a me and a you. But there is no me and there is no you. There is only ultimate oneness. So I have no reason to do that. If you can understand, there is one self, there is no one left to do anything for anyone else. The doing is part of the dream. When the awakening comes, there is only one. there is no doer. People who do things like that are yogis. But jnanis never do things like that. Yet there are people who claim that, that's happened. Many awakened people in the time of Ramana Maharshi used to claim that when he looked at them, would touch them by mistake, it caused awakening forces. He denied everything. That's why it depends on the maturity of the individual. Anything is possible.

S: Does eating a non-vegetarian diet cause the awakening to take longer or prevent it.

R: As far as I'm concerned, it's morally correct to be a vegetarian. The quality of the soul becomes purified and you come closer to realization. Eating meat makes the human body gross and pulls you down to the earth. That's why they speak of the three gunas in all spiritual teachings. Meat eaters have tamasic qualities, which are the lowest qualities of humanhood. Therefore it's better not to eat meat. Your thinking becomes clearer, you become more purified, and you're able to absorb the higher teachings. Spiritual aspirants should eat satvic foods, which are grains, fruits and vegetables mainly, some milk now and again. And they should eat small meals. And perhaps observe a day of fasting once a week. Food should not be very important to you. Whatever is set before you, you should eat, and not think about it too much. People get lost in food these days. Which food is right? Which food is bad? Which food makes you live long? Which food makes you healthy? At the end, everybody drops dead anyway. So really it doesn't make that much difference.

S: If the soul becomes more purified, what is soul?

R: Soul is something that the human body thinks it has, and as long as you believe you're human, then there is a soul that leaves the body after you drop the body. And it goes into the astral plane and plays games with itself. But as you begin to understand that I am not the body or the doer, then for whom is there a soul? There is no body, there is no soul, there is no astral plane. There is only the self.

S: Is the soul identical to the self when it is purified of all mind?"

R: No. If the soul were identical with the self, then there would be duality, there would be two. There would be the soul and the self.

S: Isn't the soul the self…?

R: No.

S: …when it is purified of all personal I and mind?

R: The soul cannot become purified. The soul is part of the personal I. The self is soul-less. Why would the self need a soul?

S: Then you're saying the soul is the mind.

R: The soul is the mind. The soul is the personal I. All those things are manifestations of your own thoughts of the mind. But in truth, there is no thing but the self, and I am as that. We get caught up in all these concepts that keep us earthbound. For instance in my diet, I eat grains and fruits and vegetables, but I don't give much thought to it. My body will automatically get up and it goes for the food it needs to sustain itself. Yet I have nothing to do with that. If you really knew you were not your body, that question would never once come to you.

S: What?

R: The question would never come to you, due to the fact that your body will always take care of itself. Who grows the oranges in the orange tree? Who grows mangoes in a mango tree? Who grows the grass? Who takes care of the world and the earth? The same power that takes care of all the things on this planet, will take care of your body. You don't have to worry about it. Everything will be OK. Your body will not walk into the street and get hit by a car unless you are day dreaming. You will be awake. Being awake is not being in a stupor or walking into walls, or getting hit by a car purposely. Being awake is being aware. Everything just happens spontaneously. But it happens better than you can ever imagine, if you were thinking about it. Therefore be yourself and you will see what transpires. I picked up a glass of water and I drank a little bit. I didn't think about it. It was spontaneous. I didn't say, "I wonder if I'll be able to drink the water. I wonder if the water is pure and fresh, or if the glass is going to break." It's the same with your body. Once you stop thinking about your body, it'll take care of itself better than you can ever do it.

S: To those of us who have expressed verbally, "Oh, I'll never get this, or, it seems so difficult, or, it may take life-times," you say, "Don't say that." Is this from knowing that our words have power, cause our lives have power to create what we expect?

R: As long as you are in the physical plane, words and mind do have power. Your words come from your mind. When you say something negative about yourself you're keeping yourself earthbound. Even if you make a mistake, realize that you made a mistake and forget it, and go forward. Do not dwell on the mistake. Do not dwell on the error. See what it was, correct it if you can, and go forward. But keep your mind on yourself, on I am, and you will find everything will go well for you.

S: In the bible it says, "In the beginning was the word." Was that teaching meant to show us that our words are powerful, that they begin a process?

R: They're actually talking about a primeval word Om. The first current of creation was Om. That was the word. And after that came creation. So if you want to get back into creation you chant Om, and you'll get to the cause of creation. But we teach and we understand that there never was a creation.

S: Except that when we're living on this realm there is?

R: So you have to ask yourself, "For whom is there creation?" and you'll find out that it never existed. No thing has ever been created.

S: In the exercise that we say in the morning, the idea is realized, we understand that everything is a projection of my mind, when in fact we're working on this level to tell ourselves that we are realized.

R: No, you're not doing that at all. You never want to tell yourself that you're not realized.

S: Nor that we are realized.

R: Oh, you are realized. But what you are really saying is, everything that you observe with your eyes is a manifestation of your own mind, and your mind doesn't exist. So there is nothing that exists. First you realize everything comes out of your mind, everything, everything. And then the realization will come that your mind doesn't exist, and you'll be free.

S: When realization starts, I believe Ramana Maharshi used to say of his experience, it starts in the heart area. Is that your experience, namely in that area of the body?

R: The reason Ramana Maharshi said that is because people wanted to pinpoint him. They said where is God located? Where is realization? So he pointed to the right side of his chest and said, the heart, the spiritual heart. That's trying to make people realize that someplace. But in truth, there's no heart. There is no spiritual heart. There is only the self. There is only absolute reality. But to those naive people who need a place to work from, he'll point to the heart center.

S: So there is no specific center that's felt. The body no longer is part of it anyway.

R: You never had a body, so why would you want to feel things in your body? Anything that's felt in the body is part of the illusion of a body. Remember when I'm speaking of your body I refer to the body of the universe, for what you see is an individualized body. You will see many bodies. But when you realize there's one body, and that is the body of the universe, then everything becomes one. And then that goes, and there is no body whatsoever. And you become free.

S: Why put so much on freedom?

R: We're not putting so much on freedom. It's just a word. It's a word to explain that you're not what appears to be. You're not bound to anything. There's no bondage. There's no limitation. Therefore freedom is the word that expresses that. You are not earthbound, and you are not bound to your body. That's a lie.

S: But you are not bound to not have a mind either. You're not bound to anything. You can be, you can have a dream and not have a dream. You say, "Oh it's not right to have a dream, it's not right to do this, it's not right to do that."

R: I'm not saying it's not right. I never use those words.

S: I don't mean you, but it's kind of understanding, kind of makes you nullify everything that is. And what is, could be beautiful."

R: Anything that's beautiful in this world is temporary.

S: So. What's wrong with that?"

R: What's wrong with that is that you're living the mortal dream. And whatever is temporary has to come to an end, and then you'll experience the other side, unhappiness.

S: You experience everything?"

R: You experience everything as a mortal being. But who wants to go through life experiencing good and bad, bad and good, up and down. And then you have to die and go through all kinds of rituals, and the karmas, and repeat it again and again and again. You want to get off the wheel and become everlasting joy, bliss, pure awareness, sat-chit-ananda, Parabrahman. You want to go beyond what appears to be. Remember it's your mortal self that sees goodness and the badness of the world. So surely you want to see your immortal self. You want to go beyond, you want to go beyond yourself to eternity, to total bliss. But if you don't want to then stay where you are. This is why I always say everyone is in their right place. There are no mistakes. I'm merely voicing where I'm coming from. You can listen, or you don't have to. You can practice, or you don't have to. The choice is always yours. You see, our relationship is different from what you think it is. It is not a guru-disciple relationship really. I am nobody's guru. I am just here, and you can look at me anyway you like. I didn't ask to be a teacher. It just happened. So here I am and here you are. What are you going to do about it? You can shoot me, you can do whatever you like.

S: From your orientation is there any value in heart center experiences?"

R: Heart center experiences. Yes, because a heart center experience fills you full of bliss and makes you realize there is something higher, and there is something else taking place. It lifts you up. There is nothing wrong with that.

S: Apart from nothing being wrong with it, is that perhaps useful for the process of liberation?"

R: Nothing is useful for liberation except realizing I am. Every experience you have, including your heart center experience, you have to inquire and ask, "To whom does this come?" Eventually everything has to go, including all spiritual experiences. If you truly wish to repent, just sit in silent meditation and see the perfect reality within. For all manners of error merely arise in erroneous thought, and like the morning dew before the rising sun, can perfectly be eliminated through the benevolent light and wisdom.